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What does it take to change your life? Have you ever wondered if you had a transformation because you are still getting the same outward results?

In this episode, we explore how personal transformation works that dispel the myths of instant enlightenment or using material success as a way to gauge your spiritual evolution.

We discuss how it takes commitment, discipline and facing the uncomfortable feelings and fears to truly transform your life. Understand how your ego uses personal growth and quick-fix schemes to keep you stuck and hiding from your true potential.

We also talk about personal responsibility and how no coach, workshop or course is going to do the work for you, that you must put the effort in to get the transformation you seek.

The last part is about patience and allowing things to unfold for you instead of trying to force things to happen, force your evolution or approaching your life from a place of lack.

Join us each week for Soul Sessions LIVE in our FB Creative Mind Coaching Community here:

Episode 6 Transcript

Science of Personal Transformation


Debra Maldonado, Robert Maldonado

Debra Maldonado  00:03

Welcome to Creative Mind Living, a podcast for personal growth based on the works of Carl Jung neuroscience and Eastern philosophies. We’re your hosts Debra Berndt Maldonado, and Dr. Rob Maldonado, founders of Creative Mind Coaching.

Robert Maldonado  00:21

Just remembering some of our friends who are working in the medical field and giving them a shout out, also to people that we have all over the world, some friends and clients. I was particularly thinking about Kashmir because they had just come out of a lockdown because of the military problem between India and Pakistan. And then all of a sudden now they’re on lockdown because of the corona virus. So hang in there guys. People in Spain in Madrid. You know we we definitely feel for you guys. You guys are pretty close to what we’re experiencing here in the US to New York. Definitely. Yes, hang in there guys. We love you. We love New York. It’s our old stomping ground. We’re thinking of you. Um, we ourselves in California, of course are in a hot spot as well. But the whole world is very much or pretty much the whole world is on lockdown. So, yeah, I just wanted to say we love you. We’re praying for you in our own way. And, I think together, we’ll get through all this.

Debra Maldonado  01:51

But anyway, let’s get to the topic today. The topic is the science of transformation. And what we talk about in this weekly class is really just a conversation. It’s not really a class, it’s a conversation about what makes us change inner inner, our inner world. How do we understand ourselves better? How do we become our true self? how to how to really live a more happier life? And we’re spiritual life. And so the topic today is the science of transformation. And the reason I thought this would be a good topic is because we get this question all the time. And the question is, how, you know, am I changing? When is my change going to happen? I am not seeing results out there. How do I know if I’m making the interchange? And then also, you know, randomly people take other personal development programs. They say, you know, I tried this and I tried that and I didn’t get what I wanted. And so we wanted like, explain how the science of transfer permission actually works. And maybe there’s something that you’re not doing or not, or doing that may be inhibiting your transformation. And so that’s what we wanted to talk about today. So, what do you think, Rob? What’s your first? I mean, I think the first mistake or myth that people fall into is that they measure their personal growth, by their material success. They measure their personal growth by their material success. Now, here’s the catch with this. I’ve been in the coaching industry for almost two decades. I see a lot of people thinking that they’re advanced spiritually because they’ve made a lot of money. Are they advanced spiritually, because they’ve manifested things in their life may have manifest a partner or whatever. Just because you have outer results does not mean you are transformed on a deeper in a deeper way. And then a lot of people People think, well, I want to be like that person, you know, I want to have all those things. And we’re actually doing the personal development to get the material results. And we’re not doing them to grow ourselves and to have more of our power. Now, of course, people that do our work and you people here are mostly not that type. You know, most of you are really interested in self development. But we also want to those of you who are new to our work, that maybe that this is something that no one told you before, because I know when I first started, I was always thinking, I need to manifest that like the secret. You know, when I was a hypnotherapist, it was like, change my listen to my tapes, change my thinking around money and then create money. And it really wasn’t about growth. Yeah, so when we talk about personal transformation, what’s the first thing that first aspect that we have to consider?

Robert Maldonado  04:56

I think that it’s a discipline Like any discipline, it requires commitment. And you have to be consistent. I mean, the that’s probably the part of the definition of discipline is that you’re consistent at it. If you go to the gym only once a month, it’s not as good, right as if you go every day or on a regular basis. So that’s, that’s one of the keys. We resist discipline especially in Western cultures. We’re thinking of individuality is I can do anything I want, when I want in any way I want. And really, personal transformation requires the opposite. It requires us to humble ourselves to dedicate ourselves to a process that has steps. And you have to approach sequentially. You can’t jump. You can’t jump ahead. 

Debra Maldonado  06:10

You can’t leap frog. 

Robert Maldonado  06:11


Debra Maldonado  06:12

And I think that there’s just like this quality of the Western world where they everything’s instant gratification.

Robert Maldonado  06:19

Yes. Which is the opposite of discipline. In discipline, you have to postpone gratification and do the hard work to get to the results.

Debra Maldonado  06:32

Yes. So if you ever think that like people that study with the Guru’s you know in the ancient times when the well even now the monks they go, and there’s a lot of discipline and a lot of structure to their process. Now we don’t have to be like that where we give up food and starve and do all those things. But the reason they give them those those hard tasks is to see how disciplined they are. And and I love what you said at one time you said that we are sent out on a fool’s errand first. And if we have the discipline to create the fool’s errand, then we can earn the right to go to the higher levels. And so when we think about transformation, when we say discipline, and it’s required, what is really the goal or what is transformation? How would you describe it?

Robert Maldonado  07:17

Yeah, and in essence, from a psychological or spiritual perspective is it’s moving from an over identification with our ego persona to centering our awareness as our higher self. 

Debra Maldonado  07:39

So moving from ego consciousness, to divine consciousness. So I always think of it a really easy way to think of it as you were grew up as your first early in life, your ego striving the car, it’s protecting you, it’s keeping you in a very narrow lane. It has like kind of its route already set up all the pathways that have been programmed into you. And in transformation, it’s allowing the divine to take the wheel like could Jesus take the wheel isn’t their song country song with a, it’s like your higher self starts taking the wheel and starts expanding what’s possible in your life. And it’s not just about I want to have money and I want to have a relationship and I wanna have children and one of the big house or whatever those material things we want or it’s really about the ability to choose our destiny versus being led. And so a transformation for me happens when we are choosing our destiny versus we’re leading by the ego. Yeah, so that when I talked about the material, gauging of things, when I was first starting out, I used to beat myself up when I wasn’t successful, because I thought, well, I’m not spiritual enough yet. And if I was truly spiritual, I would be able to manifest money anytime I wanted to. So it was more like a punishment or have a measurement of what it means to be to be spiritual. And it was like measured by that. And I think that you know, things like law of attraction, that’s the only way you things like law of attraction are. They are really just you know they lead this kind of thing that with a material is this success. So we think of transformation remember it’s an inner inner transformation, it’s basically to getting your power back. And it’s you step outside of those old patterns so you can create the patterns that you want in your life. So when we say discipline, what is what is that mean? Like, what does someone need to do? And I think you know, one of the things is that it’s not a quick fix that if you’re looking for that quick fix. I remember one of my clients, I’m not client, but people when I first started doing hypnotherapy, my love stuff and my book came out. People would call me and they’d say, hey, Deb, or email me and I’d be listening to your meditations for 30 days and I still haven’t met my man. And it’s like, have you got coaching? Have you worked with your emotions? Have you done anything else? And a lot of people think if I could just rewire my brain, and just listen to audios I can change and discipline requires much more than just listening to courses listening to great teachings like this. Taking it in reading books. I mean, a lot of people say, Oh, I’m always reading something. I’m very disciplined. But discipline is something a little even more intense than just that.

Robert Maldonado  10:37

Yeah, I would say given everything we understand about psychology, from philosophy, down to even religious practices, the mind is so it’s so complex, and so difficult to work with, that you really need to rely on proof. And methods and then follow a particular method. Because what I see a lot of people do is they think that more is better. So they think if I practice this, this and this and this, it’s better than practicing one thing. But in, in spiritual discipline, what less is more, you want to focus on one particular path and follow it to its conclusion. And here’s why. At the end of the day, all paths lead to the same place. So starting off on one path and then going to another one, and then another one is a mistake, because it’s like, trying to dig a well and then stopping at three feet. It’s starting to dig another well and digging there and so you’re wasting a lot of time and energy when you could have just stayed on that same path and followed it all the way through.

Debra Maldonado  12:03

And they stopped because there’s something uncomfortable about it. Yes. So as soon as you find a path and you’re like, Oh, you know, they sounded good, but I don’t really like this, I’m going to switch. We do this relationships to the relationship gets too hard, I’m going to change you’re going to find something else. And that lack of commitment to a path is really and I know for me when I first started, and I think there is a time where you when you’re in the beginning of this stage of individuation, is that you that you try a lot of things you’re all like those of you who are new to personal development you might be like all look like a kid in a candy store. I know for me, it was like a reading every book, looking at everything collectively, you know, trying to build in my own little system. But it’s when I started following a solid system is when I had the most change and most transformation but it’s almost like you have to focus and you have to have because the reason why these disciplines work is because they’re proven. And if you’re trying to figure it out yourself, your ego is going if you’re driving your personal development program, it’s going to lead you to right back where you started. It’s like kind of going in a circle. And so that’s one the discipline. So, you know, a lot of people ask me how I got what I want, I got everything I wanted, you know, I started out I wanted a relationship, I wanted to do something I loved. And the reason I have these things in my life is because I never gave up and I didn’t give up when things got hard. Of course, I gave up sometimes and but I kept going back. And, and it’s usually at that point where you feel like, you know, the world is crashing down and you should just give up everyone, every normal person would tell you, you know, just come on, you know, just it’s not gonna work is what I kept going and I kept saying no, and that’s what you know, right before that the deepest resistance is where the transformation happens. But that shallow well is what happens is you have to have the discipline to keep going in the face of adversity in those obstacles that show up. And really, it’s that those inner obstacles, it’s more of the fears that we have of change. And so your egos wonderfully designed to keep you in your comfort zone. So it’ll use your personal development process and path to keep you stuck. It’ll use that everything happens for a reason. And just wait, the divine timing is off and it’ll give you these nice little fluffy little quotes. That sounds so spiritual and even tell you it’ll disguise itself as the spiritual voice in your head. And you’ll think, oh, the goddess or spirit is telling me I should stop. And people have told me that they really felt that you know, the divine was telling them to stop like the divine would never tell you to stop. So for from my advice, my personal experience, and from my clients is the ones that are truly committed and willing to be uncomfortable are the ones that actually have a big transformation in their life.

Robert Maldonado  15:10

Yeah. And there’s a psychological reason for that. It’s that in approaching the difficult things in our life is where the growth happens. So when you avoid the difficult things, when you find a way to let your yourself off the hook, in a sense, you’re sabotaging yourself.

Debra Maldonado  15:33

And really truly imagine that you here’s a great example to test if you’re committed. If you’ve ever been in a relationship recently or have been dating someone, and they decided, it’s you know, when you decided you liked them back or they things started to get serious, they backed away. That’s really what you do to yourself. Is that when things get too intimate, too deep, you back away. And so if you notice that’s a pattern in your love life. Or if you’re a business owner, that’s a pattern with your clients, if you’re a coach, you know that you feel like oh, my clients, you know, they end up spacing or not showing up or wanting to quit. It’s a reflection of yourself too. And so you have to ask yourself, how do I quit when things get hard? And it is uncomfortable for transformation. A lot of people think it’s, once you join the personal development bandwagon, you’re like, everything is beautiful in my life, and everything’s wonderful, but but the part of wood that they get that beautiful, wonderful part, you have to do the work.

Robert Maldonado  16:45

Right, because it’s like Joseph Campbell says, where you stumble, there’s your treasure. So what he means by that is that the things that opposes are actually where the gold is. You’re not going to find it in the easy things you’re not going to find the treasure in simply doing what’s comfortable for you, you’re going to find it in the things that are difficult for you. But in the trying, and none, not even in the accomplishing those things, but simply in the trying and the willingness to face the challenges. That’s where you find your gold, meaning your transformation.

Debra Maldonado  17:27

And he also said, Campbell, the cave you dare fear to enter contains the treasure you seek. And so we have to always think of where am I free to go? What is what is scary to me. That is where the transformation is. And if you are, we’re all built, this is not a judgment. We’re all built to look for the comfort zone, where the ego wants us to stay in the comfort zone. It doesn’t. And one of the main strategies of the ego is to project make it about something else but you it’s not my fault that I’m not getting the results, these difficult people out there this world out there is all, you know, a tough world and these people are giving me problems. And one of the things that we talked about and discipline is that we have to be willing to take responsibility.

Robert Maldonado  18:19

Yes, responsibility. Absolutely.

Debra Maldonado  18:23

And so we can’t like we in our spiritual course, I hope you are all a part of that course that we’re doing right now. It’s almost like a week left, we can have left it we talk about consciousness and that we’re all consciousness that we’re all a part of. One. everything’s connected to us. So when something adverse happens externally, we have to take responsibility and say, what does this say about my mind? Why is this showing up for me and be willing to own that and most people, it’s really hard. It’s really hard on the ego. It’s not to blame, but to say, if I can, if I’m you contributing in some way my psyches creating this in some way, how that means I have the power to change it if I can access my unconscious, so willing to take responsibility, willing to take responsibility for your own transformation. A lot of people hire coaches and go to events and take seminars take courses. And they lay the responsibility on the other person, the coach or the teacher to transform them, you know. You’re in charge of healing me. You’re in charge of making me change, and they don’t take any responsibility. Now most people I met wouldn’t say well, like a lot of people do that, but some people do. And but I always tell people when they do our programs and our coaching is that the more you put into it, the more you’ll get out of it. And my best clients, I’m telling you, I have I was just on the phone with a client this week. And I said you were such a great client. She shows up. She has a list of things she wants to talk about. She’s a list of insights she’s had. She’s tells me what she’s been doing what she’s been reading, listening to the classes, and she’s having great results because she’s using everything she has, you know, she’s taking responsibility. And she’s disciplined enough to say, I’m gonna, this is something that’s important to me, it’s a priority. And I know that I’m responsible for it. And so the coaching sessions are so easy, because she’s prepared and she’s, and it works and things keep moving forward. The coach can do the heavy lifting for you. And I think a lot of people blame their coaches or blame teachers, and, you know, this isn’t working. And that’s really a sign that you’re not ready for that transformation. Again, I think most people that do our work don’t fall into that category. But it’s just those of you who are coaches, and you have clients like that. That’s something to think about. Right? 

Robert Maldonado  20:52


Debra Maldonado  20:53

Is that it’s really like, why are we you know, why aren’t people taking responsibility?

Robert Maldonado  20:58

Right. It seems to be The gate where whoever is not ready to accept responsibility, they turn back. Right. So it’s kind of a natural filter, yeah, natural challenge to test that turns back to people that aren’t ready because the person that does not want to accept responsibility for their own growth. They still want to continue to project and to blame it on other people on life on how hard their situation is, how tough they’ve had it in the past all those things. And if you notice, it makes sense, right? It makes sense to say, well, if you have a rough history, then we understand you should turn back or, you know, it’s too difficult for you. But it’s the people that say, despite of that, despite of my hardships, this byte of the challenges I’ve been given, I’m willing to take responsibility for my own growth and do the work. Those people push through.

Debra Maldonado  22:11

Yeah, and then also to like, one of the keys to transformation and you know, the same may seem self serving, but it’s really coaching in general is what works. Courses are great. Being in these groups are great, but having a coach or even in a group coaching environment where you’re getting access to support. Personal coaching, though, is the best. I mean, if you can invest in personal coaching, it’s going to give you the best return on your investment because your ego will tend to want to give up will tend to resist will tend to see things or filter your experience. In a way you’ve always seen it. The beauty of a coach in a highly trained coach like we have what they do is they have you do have like the knowledge already that maybe you don’t have yet. And basically, it’s a transmission. You’re like you’re unconsciously passing and receiving higher knowledge through their coaching and it’s like they’re tapping into your higher self saying, you know, here’s like, planting a little seeds for to wake up. And it’s such a powerful process. I think a lot of people don’t. They think it’s just talking, you know, and setting goals, but it’s, you know, the kind of coaching that we do. The Jungian coaching is transformational. It’s a school through student experience. And then also, the whole coaching. Just having a coaching session is just part of it. It’s really a whole system. You have to have discipline to work with your mind every day. You have to have a coach to help you guide you, accountability, help you but also, you have to keep learning yourself and challenging yourself and the actions you take that scare you, me. You know a lot of my client it doesn’t it’s, you know, a lot of coaching is about just moving outside your comfort zone with that’s just part of it. But it’s like how do we, how do we use, we got our comfort zone to grow. And it’s not about physical change, it’s more. For example, when I work with single people, I would tell them to go online and not to get mad and date which could happen. But it’s like, let’s see what’s your mind is reacting to the whole activity of you putting yourself out there. When we have coaches, you know, we have we challenge them to put themselves out there on Facebook and do videos and do consults with clients. That’s where they’re going to get. It’s uncomfortable, but it’s not the act itself, but it’s like what’s going on in their mind, what’s the shadow that’s reflecting back? Those are the so the actions you take are one piece, but it’s the learning and understanding about yourself and growing yourself through that action. So that’s the transformation

Robert Maldonado  25:00


Debra Maldonado  25:01

And then and the last thing is we have to be patient. Yeah. I mean, we have to trust that the divine in us, our higher self, whatever we want to call it is knows what it’s doing. And, you know, when I, before I met you, I was so anxious to meet someone. I told you, you might have heard my story of I wanted to manifest a date for a wedding in May. Well, I didn’t end up meeting Rob until November, so can you imagine if my ego was, you know, trying to create this relationship, and Rob hadn’t even moved to Denver yet. And meanwhile, the why self conceal and future is saying, hold on. There’s someone really awesome. Just wait a minute, just be patient. And so it’s that patience that we have to we look at the world and we see this. Make assumptions over what we see and we don’t really realize what’s in store for us. And part of the process is being able to trust that I’m seeing this material result right now, I don’t know what it means, like don’t make a rash judgment about it. And always look at it as it’s an opportunity for growth. So the patience about when is, like you said, when a Santa’s gonna bring me my gifts, that kind of when is my change going to happen out there materially and then judging where you are based on that? Well, I must not be as transformed yet because I haven’t met my person or I’m, you know, not making enough money in my coaching business. So I guess I need to grow more spiritually. It’s like we’re measuring our our development and our spiritual knowledge and our awareness based on a material thing and the patience is almost like a reward that I can be proud of myself now that I did this, you know, like that kind of a spiritual pride that we have that the ego tries to take over if I manifest This then I can be proud and I’m evolved. And I can tell everyone how I’m evolved. And it turns into not a transformation but just more a bigger, bloated ego.

Robert Maldonado  27:12

Right? Because desire has a strange quality to it. If you desire to be something else and somewhere else, something, you’re essentially attached to something outside yourself. You’re saying, I would be happy if only I had something something different, right my relationship, my success, my job, whatever it is, what the message that you’re giving to the higher self is that you’re not happy right now. And and essentially you’re creating more of that unhappiness. Whenever you desire something outside yourself, you’re saying, I want to be the person that’s always in laughs and always desiring something more.

Debra Maldonado  28:02

Yes. And that is interesting. I am always I’m the person that’s always in lack and always desiring more. Do you want to say that as an affirmation? No, I am the person that is completely abundant, happy where I am. I want to create more in my life, but I’m happy now. It’s like there’s a difference between desiring more in a needy way. And feeling like I’ll be better when I have those things versus what can I create because I am this creative force, I can do this. So there’s less attachment to it.

Robert Maldonado  28:40

Yeah, at the end of the day, the only the only real desire we should have is for personal growth. For fulfillment for that process of moving from ego to higher self. That’s the true desire. If your desire that, everything else falls into place. 

Debra Maldonado  29:02

It doesn’t mean you don’t get those other things. It’s just you’re putting it in the right order. So that growth comes first, then all the little things like relationships and love, and friendships and material success and living your purpose and health and all those things fall into that. But what we do is we put personal growth underneath it, you know, like, oh, like, oh, I got this now. I don’t need this personal growth or you’re using personal growth to get those things. And then that becomes the goal versus growing yourself. And the reason why we were drawn to personal development is because our divine self wants to be known. So the difference between our type of coaching and other coaching is that we really go from we’re not ego maintenance. We’re not about just building up the ego, building up confidence in this persona to have things in the world. What we do is something much deeper, which more natural is that we individuate from that ego, and individuation is what Jung called name that term of the process of going, like we said, from ego from that root survival mind to the, like basically the undefined, unlimited self, which a lot of gurus talk about and that’s individuation. But I think what happens is that a lot of people confuse that because of the term unlimited self. They think their ego can be unlimited. And they think that if their ego will go away one day, that thoughts, the negative thoughts will go away and problems will go away. And it’s like illusion that you’ll have this like, conflict free life and float on a rainbow when you’re doing personal development, and it’s actually quite the opposite. And a lot of times, our path is much more difficult than the person who’s ignorant and stays out of it. And you might see your friends who are weak, you know that blissful ignorance so they have like their little house and their life and they seem to be happy. And you are doing personal development. And it may you may feel like it’s more of a challenge life for you. But because you’re taking on a bigger challenge in your spiritual growth, and it’s like almost like there’s the hero that goes and faces the dragon and then the people that stay in the village that wait for the hero to go out, you’re the hero, you’re the hero, you’re you. You’ve asked for this, you’ve asked for something higher. And that takes discipline. It takes commitment. And it takes you not being patient and not beating yourself up when the material stuff hasn’t shown up yet thinking well, I’m not that evolved yet. Like and I’m only saying this from my own personal experience. That’s how I would measure myself is that I must be this terrible, unenlightened person because I’m, you know, can’t pay my bills this month or something. You know, when I first started my hypnotherapy practice, I would be like, I gotta manifest money. I got to manifest money. It was really scary to start my own business, and I would tie it too much to enlightenment. And then I met you and we had deeper talks. And I was like, Oh, yeah.

Robert Maldonado  29:09

Then you were really in trouble. 

Debra Maldonado  29:16

I was really in trouble. But we, you know, I started learning about non attachment and deeper Eastern philosophy and, you know, in a deep way, you know, I read that stuff before. But, you know, we started to really look at what is this about?

Robert Maldonado  32:26

Yeah, I remember when we went to the first time we visited Paris, and we went to Notre Dame.

Debra Maldonado  32:33

Oh, yeah.

Robert Maldonado  32:34

We walked around the church and all around the church were these gargoyles, facing outward, meant to the streets. And I was wondering, why would people do that? You know, this is a temple, a holy place, a place of pilgrimage and of worship. But you have these gargoyles, these demon type things, looking outward. And I think what their intention was that if people were superstitious enough to think, you know, that’s scary, like they were projecting their own fears on to those images of the gargoyles, then they weren’t ready to enter the sacredness of those places.

Debra Maldonado  33:21

And so it’s like a preparation. It’s like a filter.

Robert Maldonado  33:25

A filter of time, like we were saying it’s a gateway. It’s if you can’t pass this challenge, you’re not ready for it. Facing the emotions facing our own fears and projections, has the same effect. If you’re not ready for personal transformation, you’ll turn back when those apparent demons appear.

Debra Maldonado  33:49

And it doesn’t mean if you turn back. Don’t beat yourself up either because you may have to gather some strength to face what you need to face and you may need guidance. You may need a coach to face those things. It’s hard to do alone. It’s impossible to do alone. It’s you need a guide. And so if you want to transform, think about ask yourself these questions. Am I disciplined enough? Do I have a process that I follow? Or am I doing, you know, a little piece of this and a little piece of that and I’m all over the place. And am I committed to one path? And also do I back out when things get hard? So how committed I am? And then do I take responsibility for my results? Do I know myself that I’m more than an ego that I can actually have a create something new? Or do I feel like a victim all the time of circumstance and, you know, the world is against me? Do I feel that I can make a change through my own power that I have? Then the last thing is patience and do I have patience with myself and one of the you know, if you are impatient about anything you want in life, like you said, it’s like lack you’re already approaching it with a lack mindset. So you’re gonna keep getting more so if you’re impatient to make money I know everything that’s going on right now people are impatient for this process to be over and everyone get back to normal again. So you see us those those those trouble feelings, you have the tension that’s coming up and the anxiety and say, well, how can I bring more patients into my life? How can I be more patient? And what am I attached to? Like, what is the fear that’s really coming on? And it’s really not about the external world. It’s about something that your ego feels threatened to it. And yeah, and really see yourself asking yourself, am I on the path of individuation? Or am I just maintaining my ego and keeping my ego comfortable and the more uncomfortable you’re willing to go and be and face with yourself. The deeper relationships you’ll have the deeper heartfelt connections you’ll have with people. You’ll have genuine, authentic connections, because you’ll be not afraid to say what you need to say. And you’ll also have abundance. It was a great talk, really glad we got to get this information to you, and have a great rest of your day and wonderful weekend and stay safe. Hold the vision for the world. And all the people that are fighting for their health and just let’s just hold in our minds a feeling of health and prosperity for everyone. And the world’s becoming a better place.

Robert Maldonado  36:47

Yes, thanks for the great question. 

Debra Maldonado  36:50

Yes, see you next time. Take care.

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