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Listen as we discuss the Creative Mind spiritual philosophy. We talk about manifestation and what that really means, how it really works from a psychological and spiritual perspective, and how you can become a more spiritual person and live a more spiritual life. 

  • Learn about the underlying philosophy of the Upanishads.
  • Discover the Jungian model of personal transformational psychology.
  • Understand how to apply these deeper philosophical and psychological perspectives in a practical way in the world as a coach as a as an entrepreneur.

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Episode 23: Spiritual Psychology for Coaches

Episode 23 Transcript

Debra Maldonado  02:21

Welcome to Creative Mind Living, a podcast for personal growth based on the works of Carl Jung neuroscience and Eastern philosophies. We’re your hosts Debra Berndt Maldonado, and Dr. Rob Maldonado, founders of Creative Mind Coaching. And today we are going to dive into spirituality and a lot of people come to us they want to be spiritual coaches, they want to help people in a spiritual way. Actually, I think that’s how I started I wanted to I love personal development. I love spirituality. I loved studying, you know, energy and chakras and all those things and I wanted to be more of a spiritual coach, but I ended up being a hypnotherapist, first of all and helping people lose weight and quit smoking and I felt like it was more practical than spirituality. But I realized, the more I worked is that you really are working with someone’s soul when you’re working with them, and to really, truly have a transformation, we have to understand the spiritual aspects of a person. You can help them change their thinking you can help them, you know, make better decisions as a coach. But if you want to really help someone, you help them understand who they are not just the ego, that they’re not just the ego. And so our work we’re going to go over today is our philosophy of spiritual philosophy. We’re going to talk about manifestation and what that really means and how coaches have gotten into that I want to help you manifest and how it really works from a psychological and spiritual perspective, and a little bit more about how you can become a more spiritual person and live a more spiritual life. So let’s start start with what is our philosophy Rob, what is how do we see the world what is our worldview it’s so important that the foundation if you’re going to do any work with Someone you have to understand what they believe about what’s possible, what what their spiritual beliefs are. That was probably one of the first questions I asked every client since the beginning is what do you believe? Do you believe? Are you Catholic? Are you Muslim? Are you? Do you believe in New Age? Yeah. What is your belief system, the universe? And that really kind of sets the stage for everything else you do with that person because you’re working with that paradigm.

Robert Maldonado  04:27

Yeah, that’s true. But in a way, belief is is only part of the story. Yes, absolutely. What we believe often is adaptive. It’s been given to us.

Debra Maldonado  04:43

We’re told what to believe.

Robert Maldonado  04:45

Yeah. It’s been given to us by our environment, our circumstances or culture or history or personal history like young says, but we want to get to the point where we know Yes, what is it that we know? No. Believe so I direct experience or direct experience of our mind of our psyche of our spirit, our soul.

Debra Maldonado  05:09

Carl Jung, famously, they asked him, Do you believe in God? And he said, believe, No, I know. And that’s really what you want. If you’re going to be a spiritual coach or do any spiritual work, you want to have that direct experience, not just an intellectual experience, or a belief, I believe that you know, everything about changing your belief, I believe that anything’s possible would have you know, anything’s possible this huge shift in your paradigm and and how you create your life. Because if you just believe it’s more of a hope, and a prayer versus that knowing it changes everything, it changes your willingness to step out more to create more in your life.

Robert Maldonado  05:53

There’s three things that we teach all our clients and all our trainees. Whatever specialty they want to go into in the coaching. One is that there’s a philosophy that underlies this process. And that philosophy comes from Vedanta, which which are essentially the Upanishads the philosophy of the Upanishads. The second one is that there is a personal transformational psychology based on the Jungian model. And then thirdly that there is this mindset of how to apply these deeper philosophical and psychological perspectives in a practical way in the world as a coach as a as an entrepreneur. So the basic one the the philosophical foundation, essentially teaches us that we’re we are living in a conscious universe, and and science is catching up with this perspective. Even in Nature and Science Magazine recently, there was a couple of articles that talked about how we can no longer speak of a material universe the way we conceived of it. In the Toniann and Einstein, theory, we are actually living in a conscious universe, that means it’s a living process. It’s a psyche, basically, that we’re living in. And that changes the whole paradigm of, you know, when you were talking about manifesting or spiritual work, it changes the whole idea because now spirituality is not separate from the way we experienced the material world. The material world is our spirituality.

Debra Maldonado  07:54

So, you know, the self help movement actually exploded back in 2003 2005 I guess it was when the secret came out. And so became this phenomenon that your thoughts create your life. And even there’s a movie now called the secret which we watched like the preview and I was like, Oh my God, he’s like it’s like a magnet your mind attracts things. And that is actually incorrect according to the conscious universe paradigm in the material universe. Sure. Yeah. There’s you’re separate from everything. And in Vedanta, it’s the conscious universe meaning that you’re connect everything is you, everything is a part of you. So imagine your life isn’t just that idea that it’s not out there like you have all the power of the universe within you that idea. We can say it you believe in potential and everything can happen. But when you put it to work, like that mindset of I’m going to visualize and attract something. What we end up doing is doubting because it’s not showing up and we don’t know that this is all part of our problem. And I think that what happens in the what happened in the industry is that all these spiritual coaches are telling you how to manifest things. And with the West, we’re very consumption, consumer base, we want to get stuff we want to find love, we want to, you know, all those things that we want. But we end up losing the gift of understanding this higher knowledge of yes, in a way we are who we are, is our experience in life, but it’s the mechanism is not, you’re attracting it from externally. And I love this. I just saw this video the other day, and I thought it was so perfect. So imagine that you are out there, you’re single, you’re looking for a partner, but all of a sudden, you inherit a billion dollars and some long lost aunt that you didn’t know, gave you a billion dollars and you’re like so wealthy, and then you finally meet your partner and you get married and you’re so happy. And then all of a sudden, there was a mistake. And they were like, you know what? That billion dollars isn’t yours and they take it all away. And then your partner says, yeah, you know, it was nice to know you, but I’m gonna leave. How would you feel you would feel used you would feel as though that partner was using you for the money? Now imagine you asking the universe or asking God or asking the divine for something? Wouldn’t the divine feel a little use that you’re just kind of like asking for stuff? And instead of like, getting to know the divine in a way that’s more profound, and more deep and more meaningful than just what can you do for me? And so it I know, it’s kind of a shocking, shocking example. But that’s kind of what we do and we don’t even realize we’re doing it. We it’s like there’s a lot of people that just talk about this that God is only around when you’re in trouble. Like when you’re in trouble, that’s when we seek God. And in a way, it’s true, we should seek the divine when we’re in trouble, because that’s really what’s going to give us the answers to everything So, but we want to approach spirituality in the right way. We don’t want to use it as a tool for manifesting material things. We want to use the things that we want to become more spiritual, not the other way around, not to become more spiritual to get more things.

Robert Maldonado  11:31

Yeah, that’s a good point. In the Upanishads, it starts with this, this understanding that as we become these bodies as we incarnate, we become confused. Like we forget, where did we originate from because the seductive beauty of the world so colorful. So there you know, it’s like, it feels so real in a material sense. But it says that our task, the whole aim of human life, is to get back to that pure awareness to that true understanding that everything is arising from consciousness from the this primal, primordial consciousness that creates us and creates the world, the universe. And that when, as you move towards that realization, you’re realizing that it’s you at the heart of you, what we call the soul, is that consciousness.

Debra Maldonado  12:55

That’s who you really are.

Robert Maldonado  12:57

It’s who you really are. It’s never been anything else. And that the, the whole manifested universe is essentially business like a dream. It’s arising and you’re experiencing it. In other words, the experience is real. you’re experiencing it. But the way it exists, is dreamlike. It’s an appearance, it’s a manifestation. It’s an experience. 

Debra Maldonado  13:26

You know, it’s interesting that that knowledge of understanding and that direct knowledge there are many things in my life that I want to create that haven’t created yet. And there are many things on the journey to creating our business and meeting you and all those things that I’ve wanted to have. And I used to think well when I have those things, I can find peace I can I can relax. You know when I finally get that book to you when I finally find that soulmate, when I finally have a business that I can leave my corporate job for, then I’ll be happy. And what I realized is through this work, that everything that you create becomes secondary. And the primary goal becomes, how do I know who I want to see who I really am? I want to see what I’m made of. I want to understand myself. And there’s something what you just said that was so profound for me is that when I realized that I’m the true nature of reality, just understanding that I have the answer, not intellectually, but I’m having a direct experience of it, which is, when I don’t get all the things I want actually gives me the opportunity to realize that all of a sudden I have that happiness and joy that I think those other material things will give me there’s nothing. It’s greater than meeting you and having a great relationship. It’s greater than having a successful business. It’s greater than traveling the world and seeing amazing things. And being you know, being able to do the work I love. The real goal is this connection to who you are. And I just feel that people miss out like you’re trading something small for gold. Like it’s like you’re trading dirt for gold. It’s really, really backwards. I think a lot of the consumerism of the coaching industry that it’s turned out to be this hire someone that will help you manifest more money, which is great, you could manifest more money, but is that really going to bring you true happiness, it’s not going to. And I’ve seen so many coaches, like I’ve talked to them on the phone interested in our work. And a lot of them are stressed out because they don’t have that deeper knowledge. And they’re, they’re worried about now that they have the business are they making the clients happy? And are they getting the clients the results they want? And this work actually helps you understand that whatever struggle your client is going through that you can be the rock for them truly, and your ego’s not attached to Matt helping them manifest you’re actually the rock. You’re the guru True Guru. You’re the one who’s the calm, guiding center. And that I think is the beautiful thing about this work.

Robert Maldonado  16:21

Yeah, yeah. So let’s talk about Jung a little bit. And but let’s say first that I wanted to just touch on how the Upanishads play into all this? So for those of you not familiar with the Upanishads to the thousands of years old, not really sure how they are, but they least go back 3000 years, the written stuff and then orally they, you know, even further but I wanted to give you a glimpse or a sample of what was What is in there? So one of them, one of my favorites is called the manduka upanishad and it starts out something like this. It’s a pupil asking a teacher. What is the one thing that knowing I will know everything else? Like what is the one thing that will explain to me what everything is, what my mind is, what reality is, what success is what love is everything? That kind of philosophical question. I mean, if you think about how powerful it is, the people were thinking about these things in ancient times. And they were discovering it directly through, you know, without microscopes, without telescopes, without the scientific method by introspection by looking inward through meditation understanding their own psyche. So the answer to that is simple. It says, If you understand consciousness and that everything is arising from consciousness, you will understand everything, right? Because there’s nothing outside of it. There’s nothing that cannot be accounted for by understanding the principle of primal awareness. So, then, we get to Jung and Jung is saying, if you look at human history, that need to know what is the nature of reality and what is the nature of my mind.

Debra Maldonado  18:44

And who am I that the question of who am I and what happens after I die? Like, you know, is there after life and you know, my I know, I see people around me dying like what happened.

Robert Maldonado  18:57

Right. He says that is a primal human need, you cannot get rid of it just simply because you invent some gadgets. And you say, well, we have computers now that can explain things or, or we know about evolution and the solar system that he says that’s not going to get rid of that need.

Debra Maldonado  19:22

It’s almost like something you can’t read in a book, or it can be explained in a book. It’s something you have to contemplate, to become aware of. It’s not like you could study like, you could read the Upanishads. And you could read the Gita a million times. And it’s not gonna actually the words aren’t going to give you the answer. It’s the contemplation of the words that gives you the answer.

Robert Maldonado  19:43

That’s right. And it’s not this the there’s two types of knowledge in the Upanishads. The knowledge of the external world is a lower knowledge.

Debra Maldonado  19:59

Science of biology

Robert Maldonado  20:02

Yeah, exactly like, how do plants grow. How do things move? How does the weather work?

Debra Maldonado  20:07

Even psychology like how do people get programmed? And why does the brain work? And why do we have defenses and all those things?

Robert Maldonado  20:14

You know, what’s interesting, interesting is that it says even the scriptures themselves, meaning the Upanishads, it says is lower knowledge because it’s simply encoded in words and your you know, you can read it, anyone can read it. It says higher knowledge is a direct experience of what your true self is. So, that’s the distinction. Any information that we have, and we have a lot of information now as human beings. We have a gluttony of information now is on the lower knowledge. It doesn’t instruct us on what is your mind and what is the nature of reality. It’s simply telling as you know about things.

Debra Maldonado  21:04

So, like the idea of non attachment, you know, oh, I know I have to be non attached. It’s very common. But what does that really mean? And why? Why do we what like, it’s almost like I’m not going to be attached. But then people confuse that just as an example, people confuse that with, I don’t care. I’m not going to care about the results, or I’m giving up the result. And I just want to be non attached and whatever God or the universe shows me, but that’s actually the wrong the wrong way to approach it, you know, well, there’s no right or wrong, but it’s like not what the higher knowledge is intended for. So that would be an example something like that. forgive your neighbor. What does that mean? You know, what does that really mean? Why do we have to do that?

Robert Maldonado  21:47

Yeah, the higher knowledge comes into play when you have that direct experience. It becomes in a living knowledge, like it activates your psyche and that’s what Jung was talking about in his psychology. He’s saying, you have to get in touch with your unconscious mind. And he had this concept of the collective unconscious.

Debra Maldonado  22:13

There is the personal which Freud and everyone agree there’s some kind of unconscious subconscious or not well, the people that believe in dynamic or depth psychology, but Freud believed that stopped at there, you know, we’re just a product of our past experiences. And that’s all we are. And when we die, that goes away and nothing happens because well, I say he was more of an atheist, right? 

Robert Maldonado  22:35

Yeah, all psychology basically agrees on the unconscious mind on the personal. Even if you’re a neurobiologist, you essentially see that the the brain is doing most of its work automatically. You’re not conscious, for example of your breathing and your blood pressure. It’s doing all that unconsciously.

Debra Maldonado  22:57

But it’s not all psychologies address. The unconscious they kind of address the they think the moving, changing behavior can change the pattern, right? 

Robert Maldonado  23:09

Yeah I would say behavior is the pure radical behaviors do not want to look at the mind at all. They say well, if you can observe it, that’s the point. But that most of psychology agrees that there is a personal unconscious going on. The the difference in the Jungian model is that he says there’s a there’s a collective unconscious and then connects us to the total history of humankind. So if you look at why do the same ideas arise in different cultures in different times all over the planet? He says because we’re all dipping into that collective unconscious and many of them same ideas. The serpent, the dragon.

Debra Maldonado  24:06

That was the archetype mother he talked about.

Robert Maldonado  24:09

That’s right. So those become the central archetypes that feed humanity, humanity’s mythologies, religious ideas around the world. They all arise from one source. 

Debra Maldonado  24:24

There’s always the divine child, the sacred child, the rebirth. There’s rituals, you know about the fire and

Robert Maldonado  24:34


Debra Maldonado  24:34


Robert Maldonado  24:35

Transformation. All are

Debra Maldonado  24:38


Robert Maldonado  24:39

Yes. All are the elements that are rising from the collective unconscious.

Debra Maldonado  24:46

Believing simply like if we think about the pattern of the mother archetype, like everyone has a mother so we’re all kind of falling into that pattern and family units like even with the animals. They have the Mother, the Father of children. You know, they kind of like, we just think that’s just the way it is. But there’s an archetypal pattern. It’s like the matrix that, from that movie, they talked about the matrix, that’s kind of the idea is that there’s this deeper part of ourselves as beyond the personal. That’s why he they call it transpersonal psychology, the Jungian, and if we just think we’re just the person, we’re really just working on our ego level, we’re just kind of like making our ego a little better. But Jung gives us this more spiritual, bigger spiritual dimension to our, our connection to the universe, everything the stars, the planets, everything is within us, which is a powerful concept.

Robert Maldonado  25:40

Yeah, that that is essentially why it is a spiritual psychology. 

Debra Maldonado  25:44

He’s the first spiritual psychologist.

Robert Maldonado  25:47

Yeah. And then he his idea was simply this that if we neglect as human beings, if we neglect that part of our psyche, which is the really the essence of it. And we just focus on the external ego psychology. We’re going to miss out on really what is the nature of our mind, what is our purpose on on earth it as human beings. It’s not simply to make progress, like we think at the ego level that, you know. We need to invent better machines, better programs, better computers and, and move ahead. He says, if you operate from that perspective, the shadow will always be building up the collective shadow. And throw a monkey wrench in the process. And you will be surprised you will think, well, you know what went wrong. We were so focused on building progress and this incredible utopian society, but the shadow elements will always be building up and will play out eventually.

Debra Maldonado  26:58

It’s like a country that place the hero where the world becomes the villain of the world and the dark and the light and how it plays out. But also in the archetypes I find that you know, masculine and feminine and understanding that about ourselves in a more collective way, not just a slick a lot of people talk about masculine and feminine, balancing those energies out but more on the ego level, like how do I become less, more like more logical and more, instead of less logical and more creative and those kind of things are nice to balance out the sight of the the personal psyche, but we have these beautiful, other parts of our fat, masculine, feminine, that are transpersonal that are the force of spirit of the universe, and the creativity and innovation and imagination of the universe that we can gather if we go beyond just the personal that’s the difference between Jungian coaching and most coaching out there is that there’s no, a lot of them are just working on the personal level. And now of course, you have to work on the personal level before you get to the transpersonal. Or you’re just bypassing your personal stuff. But it’s not fixing the personal, it’s understanding your psyche and how it’s working and balancing you out from early on, and then taking that and then now, being able to create something more in your life. It’s like completing the old programming and saying, let me just kind of now see myself beyond that little ego. So it really is a fascinating process. And I wanted to talk about dreams. Because I feel like for me, the dreams are showing us or giving us a direct experience of the divine nature because I would struggle with something a problem and I would have a dream about it. And it was almost as if God was speaking to me like I would be like, what a amazing beyond the surface persona, Debbie, that there’s this energy that’s giving me insight and information of where I’m at and reflecting back to me. For me that is understanding your dreams and being able to connect it to your personal everyday experience, to me is a direct experience of the our divine nature because where did that information come from? It’s not my conscious mind. figuring things out, it’s something deeper or some wisdom within me, that is giving me something and to be in communication with that wisdom. That’s why I think, you know, the dream work is really fascinating.

Robert Maldonado  29:37

It is, and it’s great to see that people that come to work with no previous experience some dream work. It’s up sometimes they say I, I never even thought about my dreams. You know, I don’t even dream or they, they believe they don’t even dream right. Then all of a sudden, they they get in touch with this unconscious In and it kind of comes alive and begins to give them these in credibly archetypal dreams. Very mythological, very colorful, very creative. And and there you see what you always talking about? He says individuation is a natural process in us. were designed for it. If you look at what is a bird designed for it’s designed for flight. It doesn’t have to try to fly it simply fits into the air permanently. What are we designed for? We’re designed for this marveling at the beauty and depth of the universe, how conscious it is, how creation is itself alive and symbolic. He calls it the symbolic life.

Debra Maldonado  30:56

You know, when you’re talking about that it goes back to what I was saying earlier, is that we cheapen spiritual work by just trying to manifest things, when what you just said is so poetic and beautiful. And that’s really, like I said, the gold like we’re trading dirt for gold. You know, we’re getting behind. And that does include having great relationships and wealth and abundance. There’s nothing wrong with having money and wealth and being famous or reaching lots of people and changing the world through your work, writing books, all those things are an expression of that. But the real gold is knowing who you are. And that is just it’s that’s the, that’s the million dollar prize that no one can take that away.

Robert Maldonado  31:43


Debra Maldonado  31:44

And to to be able to share that with others to be able to see them as their potential to not fall into Oh, they’re not getting the work or they’re, they’re not getting what they want and being stressed out as a coach needing to help the client reach their goal and feeling like you’re responsible. You’re able to look at everything that’s showing up and saying, Wow, okay, I know how to work. You know when a good example of this is if you’re a child, you’re a parent and you have a little boy and he says he’s three or four years old and he says I want to race car. You wouldn’t give him the race car you would be like, no, you’re gonna hurt yourself or you’re gonna hurt other people. You don’t know how to drive it. You haven’t developed enough to be able to handle that. It’s the same thing with what we went desire in life. We have these great desires for love and success and you know, connection and great relationships, children like all the things that we want him to experience as a human. But we have to mature and become the person that can handle those things. Otherwise, if we are just the ego, the relationships will never be satisfying. The success will be working too hard and stressing out. The money will never satisfy you. You’ll get sick. Yeah, like it’s just not going to fulfill you. And so what I believe is that, and maybe you agree to is that when you ask for something, the thing that shows up for you initially is the challenge is like, if you ask God or the divine for something, I want to relationship, I want to have a great business, I want to change my career and become a coach. So the initial thing that the divine will give you is the challenge, not the thing. It’s the challenge to help you get through the thing, but most of us see the challenge and go oops, I guess I’m not getting what I want. Let me just meditate harder. And, you know, clear my Chakras again, and hopefully I’ll get it versus the challenges right there. It’s right there. And it’s what the divine has given you like on a scale silver platter is this is your goal. This is your your project. And if you thought if you do this project, you’re it’s gonna lead you to that thing. So if I would have just asked for a relationship at 23 when I was like trying to create thinking positive and read my first self help book, I wasn’t ready for relationship I truly wanted. And I probably would have ended up with a terrible marriage and divorce and you know, all these things that happen. I feel so blessed that it was like with pulled from me. So I had to keep going deeper to figure out who I needed, and what kind of relationship I really wanted. I didn’t even know what I wanted. And so we often have a childlike attitude when it comes to this. I want to create my life, but we don’t know why we want it. And we don’t know what really is good for us just like a little kid. So we have to mature spiritually to have that.

Robert Maldonado  34:56

You know, there is this sense that we in incarnate to work things out. So some of those some of those ideas that we’ve heard in that say in religion or the New Age movement, there is something to that. But again, we had to find a way, and for us, it’s this way of working, right. We’re very personal, working with our own mind and kind of in our own situation, that the way to work it out the way to reach enlightenment is not by running off and trying to escape our mundane situations. Yeah, contrary. It’s the ability to move towards these things that present a challenge to us.

Debra Maldonado  35:48

It’s going through them not around them or not clearing them getting rid of them. It’s going to clear my blocks. No, you want to embrace your blocks. You want to say what’s in here, this is where the gold is. This is what’s going to give me bring me to the promised land. Not getting rid of it and clearing It’s not like I heard someone say this I think it was a one of the Guru’s you’re trying to bulldoze your way through to get what you want. You just want to bulldoze through it versus work work it out and and through where that working. That’s where you actually get the insight or the inspiration or the the transformation that will give you what you mean.

Robert Maldonado  36:28

Yeah, in in that sense, then our work is very practical. It’s not just philosophical.

Debra Maldonado  36:36

Not like, oh, I’m the divine self and I’m connected to everything and I’m gonna meditate on that.

Robert Maldonado  36:41

It’s simply what is what has arisen for me. What is around me? What triggers me? What kind of dreams am I having? And all these very immediate experiences are giving us the answer. They’re pointing the way to what our work is about. And if we’re willing to stay with these things and embrace them, they transform our life. They see them as a gift.

Debra Maldonado  37:12

Like, you know, I so many of my clients recently had two clients that had very very tough experiences happen to them and a challenge that they went through and they both were freaking out and wanting to like why did this happen? You know, like that kind of like feeling powerless and but under me understanding that knowledge as a coach. I was able to say, let’s begin let’s dig in here. what’s this about versus how do you just think positive and change it now let’s see what this is about. Let’s go deeper into this. What is it? Why did this show up? Because it’s there’s there’s a reason why something shows up like this. And each one of them. I mean, I actually so funny, they both were going through it at the same to two different problems, one love and one work. And they both got to this week. And it was just a few weeks of great realization, self realization that they couldn’t have had, by reading a book or understanding it just by hearing us talk. They had to face this challenge. It’s like, the divine gives us the challenge. Embrace the challenge, because in that challenge is what’s going to give you the ultimate goal. But if you’re a coach, and you’re going freaking out, because the person’s having challenges, which I did when I first started. I would panic when someone wouldn’t have a result or they would be upset and I’d feel like I have to fix them. It’s my responsibility to pay me as a coach I need to solve their problems. And then what happened is that created such a burden on me to solve everyone’s problems. That’s not what coaching is about. Coaching is having that higher knowledge and being able to, you’re transmitting it through, not freaking out when the client is freaking out. It’s like they’re getting, it’s like you’re opening up that part of their conscious mind to expand to transmit what they already know. But it’s like opening the door for them. Yeah, it’s kind of a way to explain it, you’re opening the door, and letting them not freak out, like you’re giving them that permission to go toward it. And it’s a beautiful thing. And that’s, it saves years and years of coaching by having them just go through it. Instead of it keeps happening. I’m going to get rid of the symptoms again and try it again. And then it happens again. It’s like go deep with it. And that’s what’s going to transform you go where you fear to go. Joseph Campbell says the cave you fear to enter train contains the treasure that you seek.

Robert Maldonado  39:53

Yes, and some of our coaches ask as well, you know, would I be able to have all the answers for my clients? And really the process is not about giving the client the answer because we really can’t. The answer has to come from within them. This kind of this type of coaching is more about understanding the principle of individuation that the client’s own psyche is ready to go through a transformation. All we’re doing is helping them go through the process.

Debra Maldonado  40:35

It’s not like we’re holding the we’re holding the mind to where they’re going. And it’s like pulling them there. It is a very powerful process to have a Jungian coach who has the higher knowledge is you will get better results because you are going to get more than just a quick fix. You know, let me get more dates or let me get you know manifest. To husband, we want to say, I want to have the ultimate extraordinary relationship. I want to have the job that fulfills me and I and even a company that I love. I see so many people that are entrepreneurs that they’re doing they’re not doing what they love they’re they’re doing it to make money but they’re not because they can’t go back to the corporate world but they just haven’t found what their purposes so they’re kind of working really hard and they’re right back in another job and not really connecting to their deeper self in what they do. So they’re chasing the money. I see so many business coaches that want to teach spirituality but they see oh, all the business coaches are making money so I’m going to do that it’ll be easier and and then they cut off and then they can see them going back after a while. A couple years later, they’re going you know, I really want to teach mindset. I want to teach deeper work. I don’t want to teach marketing anymore. That’s not what I got into this for and so the industry can be very seductive that way where it feels that Oh, that would be the easiest way. Or it’s also seductive of giving, being the advice giver, you know, because it’s simple. It’s think positive and you know, you change your behavior and those are very easy concepts. Being a Jugnain coach, you’re going to be a very small category of not having a lot of competition, because not everyone goes to that depth and you’re going to stand out you’re going to hear people are going to hear you and say, there’s something different about what this person saying you probably think that about us too. There’s something different. It’s a different perspective. You don’t want to be a cookie cutter coach. You don’t want to be just like everyone else doing law of attraction, Think positive manifestation. You want to be someone who facilitates a transformation on a real deep level. And I think it also thing we should talk about too, is that it’s not about healing or fixing yourself.

Robert Maldonado  42:59


Debra Maldonado  43:01

There’s a lot of woundedness. And, you know, kind of like therapy, you know, spiritual work. It’s like, Oh, it’s my karma from past lives. And I got to deal with all this stuff. And it’s like, it’s really heavy. I remember I used to go to those workshops when I lived in Colorado, and I just be like, exhausted afterwards because everyone was crying and people are upset and they’re, you know, reliving their past over and over, and it just seems not very productive to me.

Robert Maldonado  43:30

Yeah, I think coaching borrow a lot, especially early on from the encounter groups, from psychology from the medical model. And so it kind of built in this idea that you have to, you have to make people believe that they’re broken somehow.

Debra Maldonado  43:51

So they’ll buy your stuff. 

Robert Maldonado  43:52

Yeah, that they need you to provide the medicine and for them, and it’s okay as a metaphor because even the Buddha, I think used the idea of, you know, I’m like a physician. Yeah. And he was saying he was saying it as a metaphor, right then. Yeah, as a physician, I’m gonna give you kind of the remedy, the prescription that you need. But it’s gotten so out of hand that people really believe that there’s something wrong with it. 

Debra Maldonado  44:27

It’s just not like they’re the only ones. They had something happened to them. And they’re like, separated from society where everyone else’s, you know, has perfect lines, and I had this trauma. So I am broken, and I have, I’m different than everyone else. And like you, I remember when I first met you, you were working with the kids that were diagnosed with autism. And you were saying that everything changed. when they got that diagnosis. It was almost like the people around them looked at them differently and then the child felt that way. So how can you live your fullest potential when your teacher is telling you, you’re broken and wounded, but I can fix you. Then there’s something really like, how much potential can you really have?

Robert Maldonado  45:11

Yeah. Yeah, I think we’ve pretty much outgrown that model. And it’s time to move on. And to really incorporate the higher knowledge that we we have from Eastern wisdom traditions, as well as from current neuroscience, that shows us if you’re alive, and you’ve made it to this point. There’s nothing wrong with you. On the contrary, you’re a powerful person, because you have a healthy mind. Yeah, you’ve a healthy mind that’s protected you and helped you get to this point.

Debra Maldonado  45:44

And yeah, we talked about that. It’s not the what we’re not working with is the event that happened, we’re just kind of dealing with the aftermath, which is how our mind protected us. So these things that we call blocks are actually what actually protected us. So the reason why there’s such resistance to letting them go is because the ego says, well, this protected you. I’m not letting this go. And we all have it no matter if you had the Brady Bunch family or the perfect parents and gave you all the personal support, or someone who is terrible and awful. We all have that something that we’re dealing with. We’re all humans. We all have it. There are people that have been tougher than others and had it oh, absolutely. But I always find that those people are the more of the seekers than anyone, you know, because they’re like, you know what, I’m, and they’re there. I feel like they’re the most motivated to ask those questions. It doesn’t make that something wrong with you. Like even for me, like I for years. I thought I had such a terrible childhood. And, you know, that’s why I’m single. And, you know, I was angry at my father because all these people were telling me, you know, he was, you know, not a good father and this is what good fathers do. And you know, I got to the point. It was actually in hypnotherapy school when they asked me like, write down like all the things about your father that he did for you, right? And I said, wow, no one’s ever asked me that. And I thought about all the goodness he was, and it was all of a sudden my perspective searching like, why am I healing that like, he’s a good man. He wasn’t perfect, but he was a good man. And so there we have the people around us are always doing their best. And when I understood a little more about what made him tick, what made my mother tick, how it was passed down from generation to generation is conditioning that our parents don’t mean to hurt us, even the worst parent. It’s their acting out of conditioning, so it doesn’t get them off the hook. But it’s like, it’s like me being mad at a child for writing on the wall. It’s the child didn’t know any better. And so we’re the generation that can change that. We’re the generation that can wake up and stop the pattern from continuing to our children into our grandchildren and all that. So it’s very important to do this work. But it’s also important not to judge and let go of that. Like, there’s something terrible about me. And that’s why that happened. There’s something wrong with me. That’s why this happened to me.

Robert Maldonado  47:00

Yeah. And when you consider the higher knowledge in the Upanishads, for example, what it’s teaching us is that what we call the ego is not even real. It’s a construct. To give us that sense of, I write that personal I, but in reality, it’s only a function of the mind. The essence of the mind, the true self, is much deeper. It’s what Jung called the self and the self it emerges as you do the process of individuation.

Debra Maldonado  48:57

Yeah, so Jungian Spiritual coaching. If you want to be a Jungian spiritual coach, click on the coaching info button on this page and we’d love to have you in the program. The next one starts September 15. And we have some early bonuses if you sign up this week, you’ll get the early price. Extended pay plan, you can pay over 12 months, so the payments are only 657 a month. We also have extra sessions with us if you sign up early, and our mind and soul of success retreat, which is in October, you’ll get that as a bonus for signing up for the coach training. Now if you’re interested in the Mind and Soul of Success Retreat, let us know we can let you know about that tickets are available right now. It’s for October 3 and fourth. But if you do the coach training, we get it as a bonus. So it’s really great offer. We start September 15. The program runs six months from September to mid March. And we meet almost every week, every other week. We, Rob and I are personally hosting the training so you’re not going to have someone on our staff you will work with us directly for this training and we’re going to be involved with you we have a private Facebook community that you’ll be interacting with us with a lot of people are relieved about that. They’re like, Oh, my God, get off Facebook for a while, and, and you all everything’s digital, so you’d have to leave your home, you can get trained in a new career work from home, especially now it’s the best time to look into. First of all, the demand is higher than ever for people wanting to deal with stress and anxiety and finding their purpose and really looking for answers on a deeper level. And I think the time is right, this is only going to get bigger and bigger and you to be in the forefront of this new movement that we’re putting forth to bring deeper work and spiritual knowledge to the everyday person.

Robert Maldonado  51:09

That’s a good way to put it.

Debra Maldonado

Thank you all for joining us. Thank you for your questions. And we hope to see you in the coach training. The applications are open, sign up, get a consultation with me and I would love to chat with you. No pressure conversation, just to see if it’s a good fit for you if it’s right for you right now. And even if you don’t want to be a coach, we have people go through the program just for their own experience of personal development and get private coaching with us. It’s a very unique experience to do that and get access to us directly and the process directly from us.

Robert Maldonado  1:07:17

Yeah, we hope you join us. 

Debra Maldonado  1:07:19

Yes, join our community.

Robert Maldonado  1:07:20

And thanks for tuning in and hanging out with us. Stay well, and we’ll see you soon.

Debra Maldonado  1:07:28

Yes. Take care everyone. And feel free to post your questions. If you’re watching the replay. And we’ll get back to them. Come to our Facebook group and post them there and we’ll continue the conversation. Take care